|
Jackalope House Rules
|
| Jackalope Al |
Posted on 08/25/2007 14:40
|
Member
Posts: 34
Joined: 05.08.07
|
Not sure where to post something like this - so I put it here.
I am considering certain "House Rules" for the game I am going to be running. I will post some of them here for comment and consideration. Feel free to point out where you think my house rules may create conflicts I have not foreseen.
I must admit, I was planning on running straight from the book at first to get the feel for the game; so I may not impose these rules right away.
For a game (the D20 system) that has little fear of over complicating things, they sure have simple Damage and Dying rules.
========================
Damage & Dying
10% or less of Grit = 1/2 skills and abilities
When a character is at or below 10% of their Grit they are in a bad way. At this point skills, attack rolls, and other abilities (except Defense) are at half.
0 to -10% = down but conscious (at -1 or more lose 1 Grit/round till stable)
When a character has been reduced to 0 or up to -10% their total Grit, they are effectively down but conscious. A single move action or attack action is possible. A strenuous action or attack results in 1 point of damage and requires a Fort Save at DC 20 to remain conscious. A character can be unconscious while being at 0 to -10% Grit due to a failed Fort Roll.
Characters that are at -1 or lower and not stabilized continue to lose 1 Grit per Round.
More then -10% Total Grit = unconsciousness; will lose 1 point of Grit per Round till stabilized.
Dying:
At negative CON points (or -10 points which ever is greater) in Grit = death (maybe)
A character is considered dead when they reach negative their CON in Grit points. A character has their CON bonus in rounds to be revived. If they can be raised above negative their CON in Grit through Grit gain; they can be brought back from the brink of death.
~~~~~~~~~
That is what I am considering right now. Like I say; I want to run straight from the book at first to get a feel for things and so might not impose these rules right away.
TUCO: When you have to shoot.... shoot, don't talk.
--------------------------------------- |
| |
|
|
| Max |
Posted on 08/27/2007 23:54
|
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: 06.08.06
|
My first thought is: it's your game, so anything you want to do is fine.
My second thought is: will this make the game more fun or not? That is really my criteria for house rules - the fun quotient is key. So, if a house rule will make the game more fun for me and my players, then I go for it. If not, I bag it.
Your house rule looks like an attempt to make things more "realistic". If someone has taken a lot of damage, it stands to reason that they would be slowed down by this. However, will that make it more fun? You've added more math and tracking to the game, which usually slows down play (which in my games = not as much fun).
Only you know your players, however I would caution against adding more number tracking. It normally slows down play and makes combat go slower, which means less fun in my book.
There's my buffalo nickel on the subject. 
Max |
| |
|
|
| Jackalope Al |
Posted on 08/28/2007 01:15
|
Member
Posts: 34
Joined: 05.08.07
|
Thanks for the input.
Yeah, the more number tracking was part of my concern.
I had thought to simplify it slightly with just saying death is at negative your con. The whole everyone dies at -10 always bothered me.
The other rules reflect aspects of games I have played before. I think it is based on a "realism" concern.
It is easy to caught up with details when you start tinkering with rules. And, that can make you lose track of the fun factor. 
It is balance between complexity and simplicity and fun. I enjoyed the Hero system; while that was too complex to some people. I have always been a bit bothered by the (in my opinion) over simplification of the D&D AC system. But that is just one of my peccadilloes. 
TUCO: When you have to shoot.... shoot, don't talk.
--------------------------------------- |
| |
|
|
| Brad |
Posted on 08/28/2007 08:08
|
Administrator
Posts: 639
Joined: 14.08.06
|
It completely depends on what type of Western you plan on running. Do you want a game where no amount of "grin an bear it" attitude will stop a limp or allow someone to use that arm that just got clipped? Or are you running a more cinematic western, where the heroes take the bullet in the shoulder and keep firing with a sneer on their face and an insult on their lips? Only you can make that call.
In my own games (usually fantasy - I haven't run a western in a while), I have often used a vitality-body system. Body points represent taking actual physical damage and vitality represents the luck and ability to avoid getting hit. Normally, a character applies damage to the vitality points until they run out, then damage goes to body. Any time a character takes a wound, they are required to make a fortitude save to avoid passing out. The DC of the check is equal to 10 plus the amount of body damage taken so far.
If the character succeeds on the save, they are injured but conscious. Depending on the tone of the game, a wounded character might or might not receive a penalty to all actions (usually -2). In my high fantasy games, I don't want combat to have a gritty feeling; therefore, I don't apply a penalty. A character can pass into negative body points, at which point they automatically pass out (no save). A character is dead at body equal to minus their Constitution score.
Vitality points return rapidly at a rate of 1 + CON bonus per hour. Body points take much longer to heal, 1 + CON bonus per week.
As to your house rule, if you want combat to have a gritty and bloody feel, go for it. My only suggestion would be to change the penalty to a flat number. Receiving half your bonus penalizes high-level characters more than schlubs. In fact, a character with +0 in a skill receives no penalty what-so-ever. Depending on how your players view penalties, a -2 or -4 might be sufficient. (My players view any penalty as a horrible thing.) |
| |
|
|
| Jackalope Al |
Posted on 08/28/2007 12:12
|
Member
Posts: 34
Joined: 05.08.07
|
The flat penalty number is a good idea.
I was thinking about this over the night, and realized that for years I had been playing a game that was very number tracking dominate. We had to track damage in several ways:
>Track each wound separately - healing was done per wound.
>Track bleeding per round for a wound over 3pts (bleeding = -1pt/round but not for each wound just if you had any wound over 3 points there would be bleeding) - that had to be tracked separately because it was different healing rules.
>At half hit points all skills were halved.
>Blunt force was separate from other damage and healed differently.
I do think it is an attempt to layer in more realism into the game. Also to make sure that people realized that gun play or combat is a dangerous thing.
But there is the offset question - does all that tracking take the fun out? The games that try for the most realism tend to be very slow and record keeping heavy.
As Brad pointed out - perhaps a more cinematic approach is in order. I will have to decide what my campaign is slanted towards.
This why I posted this here. Good feedback! Thanks Max & Brad!
TUCO: When you have to shoot.... shoot, don't talk.
--------------------------------------- |
| |
|
|
| Allan |
Posted on 11/01/2007 05:19
|
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 29.10.07
|
I really liked the damage/healing system in OGL Wild West, and up till now that was the system we were using. But I have finally invested in DHR rules. The one area I was trying to get away from by using house rules was the increasing hit points with levels, and that hole d&d area, as my group comes from a different style of gamiing. So in OGL I droped the increase in hit points except for a small amount, and instead increased the Luck side of the game. Made for lots more fun. I have not looked at the SR rules to see if they have the hit point increase system. That is just one area of D&D my players and self cant stomach. I would prefer a system with human norms of damage taking, increase the accuracy of a character and off set this with luck and making the players think more tactically (cover/runaway). Short and furious gunfights, with players not have weird amounts of damage soaking ability.
By the way the OGL Wild West forum was dead.
Allan |
| |
|
|
| Jackalope Al |
Posted on 11/03/2007 20:14
|
Member
Posts: 34
Joined: 05.08.07
|
The Massive Damage Threshold rules help to keep gunplay pretty deadly. But even a level 7 tough can have a pretty high hit point total (Grit).
TUCO: When you have to shoot.... shoot, don't talk.
--------------------------------------- |
| |
|
|
| Allan |
Posted on 11/04/2007 21:27
|
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 29.10.07
|
I may have to use a system I had for a d&d game years ago, were the idea was HP was part shock resistance etc. So after a fight with proper medical attention and rest and rolls by the medic, the character would recieve up to half the sustained HP's. The rest was considered actual physical damage, that would take some time to heal. I also changed the base 1HP per day (or what ever), as it had no bearing on what could be considered the fitness of the person, eg their HP class dice roll. I cant remember what I did now, but the HP dice the character had was a indicator of how much HP's they recieved back per recovery period. If you like this idea, and have more experience with d&d than me, and work it into a better system, let me know.
Allan
PS; it gave the medic type character's more lime light in the game also. |
| |
|
|
| Brad |
Posted on 11/05/2007 07:56
|
Administrator
Posts: 639
Joined: 14.08.06
|
D&D claims that hit points represent more than just physical wounds. They are supposed to be combination of luck, stamina, shock potential, etc. Of course the relatively slow healing rate generally belies that. D&D 3.0, d20 Modern and SW:R all have a HP recovery rate equal to your character level per day, medical attention can greatly increase that; but, in any event, it takes days to recover from a difficult fight.
One very common house rule (and one that we use fairly regularly) is that hit points (aka grit) return on a rate of hours (instead of days). Thus, grit loss represents shock, exhaustion, tapping your heroic luck, etc. Negative grit points heal at the normal rate and represent real physical damage.
We have also run games, where every character also has Body points equal to their Constitution. Once you run out of grit you start taking taking damage to your Body. When your Body drop to zero, you're unconscious. When your Body drops to minus your Constitution you are dead. Once again grit returns quickly (in a matter of hours), Body returns slowly (typically 1 or 2 per day). |
| |
|
|
| Jackalope Al |
Posted on 11/05/2007 11:38
|
Member
Posts: 34
Joined: 05.08.07
|
You're getting pretty close to Hero System there.
They used Stun (a relatively large pool) and Body. Stun returned rather rapidly, but it was Body damage that could kill ya'. Body also returned slower.
It is pretty good system. If the whole rule set was not so math formula heavy, mini-max prone, I would use more often. It was one of my more favorite systems for fantasy RPG.
TUCO: When you have to shoot.... shoot, don't talk.
--------------------------------------- |
| |
|
|
| Allan |
Posted on 11/05/2007 18:05
|
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 29.10.07
|
One thing we do in our game is to go for a more realistic reload time, as it recreates the west a bit more, and also allows for some tactical movement, cover fire etc. It seemed to add to the tension, combined with the low hit points, it seemed to work. I have a nice western wargame rules set called 'once upon a time in the west'. It also had some nice touches like, screaming, and a brilliant weapons list. |
| |
|
|
| CSW |
Posted on 11/08/2007 07:10
|
Super Administrator
Posts: 80
Joined: 06.08.06
|
Jackalope Al wrote:
The Massive Damage Threshold rules help to keep gunplay pretty deadly. But even a level 7 tough can have a pretty high hit point total (Grit).
I was also thinking about the Massive Damage rules. In Sidewinder: Recoiled, we built in several optional rues for Massive Damage, so a Judge can increase the likelihood of sudden injury or death despite a high Grit point total.
In Ch7, we have:
Massive Damage
More Dangerous Massive Damage
Even More Dangerous Massive Damage
Townsfolk Have Glass Jaws
Perhaps some experimentation with these rules would make a difference. |
| |
|
|
| Allan |
Posted on 11/12/2007 16:22
|
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 29.10.07
|
I had a look at that rule, and it occurred to me that in most cases a person with a high con is unlikely to suffer massive damage unless hit by something very powerful. But your average pistol doing only 12 max damage is unlilely to bring on the rule against many tough characters. I suppose one way of looking at it is, most hits are just grazes, and its only the critical hits that are likely to activate the rule.
I dont want the game to be too deadly. So without having looked at the rules in detail the options seem to be, drop the massive damage to half con, or limit the overall progression of hit points, so even an experienced fighter will not go and stand in a hail of lead.
I dont know what the answer is, maybe just dont fiddle.
Allan |
| |
|
|
| CSW |
Posted on 11/14/2007 14:59
|
Super Administrator
Posts: 80
Joined: 06.08.06
|
It's true that the average pistol isn't likely to cause massive damage for most above average constitution heroes.
I know that the rules say MD considers damage from a "single hit" but if I wanted to make things more deadly, I would consider a house rule that said "damage in a single round." Thus, when two or three adversaries plug a fella with bullets at the same time, the massive damage rule could kick in and make things a might more interesting. I haven't tested this, but it seems an easy thing to adapt without having to re-work a lot of rules. |
| |
|
|
| Brad |
Posted on 11/16/2007 17:37
|
Administrator
Posts: 639
Joined: 14.08.06
|
Your absolutely correct that your average pistol shot from your average bloke is unlikely to invoke a massive damage save. A critical hit is usually required. However, keep in mind the following,
1) Loosing initiative in the fast draw round is really bad since getting hit while flat footed in an automatic critical threat.
2) Most characters will try to get a feat like Double Tap or Slip Hammer early. This turns that 2d6 pistol in a 3d6 pistol.
3) There are several Advanced class abilities that boost damage as well. The Gunslinger's Bullseye ability is brutal. In one play test I was running a double tapping, two weapon fighting Gunslinger who was clearing the field faster than I could pull out more pistols (a restricted ammunition supply was the most effective limitation to the number of targets he could take out).
That all said, we have found that tough heroes with the Improved Massive Damage Threshold feat are quite popular and Constitution is a must have ability score. |
| |
|
|
| Allan |
Posted on 11/17/2007 05:41
|
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 29.10.07
|
Excellent suggestion, thanks. I dont think I will fiddle, at least in the beginning. To many land mines if I muck around without care.
Allan |
| |
|
|
| Jackalope Al |
Posted on 01/03/2008 17:38
|
Member
Posts: 34
Joined: 05.08.07
|
CSW wrote:
I would consider a house rule that said "damage in a single round." Thus, when two or three adversaries plug a fella with bullets at the same time, the massive damage rule could kick in and make things a might more interesting.
Now that is interesting idea.
I already had a bad guy that took several hits from different players but none were very large. Added together it might have brought him down via MDT.
Hmmm... more thinking and tinkering.
TUCO: When you have to shoot.... shoot, don't talk.
--------------------------------------- |
| |
|
